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| Author |
Message |
mcpoz
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Electric cars
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Jan 6 02:25 UTC 1996 |
Well, GM has just announced the intro of an electric car - designed from the
start as an electric vehicle. This car has a range of something like 70
miles, can go 80 mph and will never go to a gas station. I believe it is
about a $30,000 car. I do not know the cost of battery replacement, the type
of batteries used, or the life of the battery, but if it is a conventional
lead-acid battery, the life is 18 months in the Southwest (Heat is a killer)
or 7-8 years in the North.
Does the $30K electric car appeal to you? (& why). Do you think it solves
the pollution problem (it is billed as a zero-emmision vehicle).
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| 23 responses total. |
scg
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response 1 of 23:
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Jan 6 02:44 UTC 1996 |
Is it solar, or does it get its power by being plugged in? If the latter,
it would be more of a "remote-emmision vehicle," having its emmisions at a
power plant instead of at the back of the car. The electricity has to come
from somewhere.
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mcpoz
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response 2 of 23:
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Jan 6 02:57 UTC 1996 |
It is a "plug-in & recharge" vehicle.
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scg
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response 3 of 23:
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Jan 6 06:01 UTC 1996 |
Then that sounds more like remote emission, rather than zero-emission. I'm
guessing it would also be less efficient than a Gasoline powered car, given
that it has to carry the weight of the batteries.
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scg
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response 4 of 23:
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Jan 6 06:04 UTC 1996 |
Also, most of my driving (in terms of distance, not in terms of the number
of times I get in the car) is longer than this electric car's range, meaning
that if I were going to spend the $30,000 to have one, I would also have to
buy another car to use for going on trips. Add to that that this Electric
car is probably less energy efficient. No, I don't think I'd buy one, even
if I did have that much money.
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davel
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response 5 of 23:
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Jan 6 13:17 UTC 1996 |
I didn't read the news items (mangled press releases) very carefully. My
impression is that for now it's to be marketed only in western states - though
I expect people elsewhere could obtain them. Steve, you are of course
entirely correct about "zero tailpipe emissions" being different from zero
emissions - and add to that minor amounts of fumes from the batteries,
possible leaks of nasty chemicals from the batteries, etc. Nonetheless,
especially in areas with hydroelectric power, emissions may be *much* lower;
and in areas with bad air pollution problems, it's not unreasonable to *care*
more about tailpipe emissions where lots of people live than about emissions
at the power plant.
I certainly won't be a candidate for this car. I definitely need *cheap*
transportation. <sigh>
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n8nxf
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response 6 of 23:
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Jan 8 00:45 UTC 1996 |
I'd be interested in an electric car, perhaps. The 70 mile range is fine
for most of the driving we do. $30K, however, is far to much and I'd
retro some small gas car instead. Im my opinion, the power density
of current storage battery technology remains far too small. As a result
the EV is doomed to failure. The only reason we are seeing them at all
is because of governmental pressures. There is no energy storage solution
on the horizon either. I feel the hybrid designs offer a better solution.
These consist of a small petrol engine driving a generator. The generator
keeps a battery topped off and also drives electric motors in each wheel.
Stopping is accomplished by using these same motors as generators and
dumping the energy back into the battery pack. The battery pack is kept
small (perhaps a 20 mile range?) and is charged on the fly as needed. The
engine, running at a constant load and RPM can be kept small ( 8 to 9 HP )
and efficent. 100 MHP is very easy to obtain thios way. It will, however,
still be expensive.
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mikep
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response 7 of 23:
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Jan 11 00:25 UTC 1996 |
I assume this is the "Impact" vehicle that they've been developing
over the last few years. Someone told me that you shouldn't test drive
it unless you're prepared to spend the money on it and on installing
the power outlet in your garage.
"That good?" I asked.
"That good." he said.
I think their price is still a bit out of whack, though, you can get
conversion kits for small cars and make your Omni run on batteries
for a couple thousand or less, from what I understand... I'll see
if I can find that particular scathing article
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kentn
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response 8 of 23:
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Jan 11 01:12 UTC 1996 |
How much of that high price is due to the low production quantity that
such a vehicle demands (and how much to truly expensive components that
don't drop in cost with production increases in the normal range of
auto production)?
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n8nxf
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response 9 of 23:
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Jan 11 16:01 UTC 1996 |
A lot is because of low volumes. A lot is batteries. Till we figure
out how to get more energy in a battery, electric cars are doomed, I'm
sorry to say. Hydrogen fuled vehicles have a more realistic chance.
(I sould say pure battery & electric vehicles are doomed...)
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scott
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response 10 of 23:
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Jan 17 17:26 UTC 1996 |
A smaller electric car would be great for city driving, since you wouldn't
have cold-start wear to worry about. I've had this dream of a car (or truck)
with electric power, a gas engine, and a very sophisticated controller. You
could run on electric in the city, gas on the freeways, and kick in that
electric motor on hills.
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n8nxf
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response 11 of 23:
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Jan 18 20:37 UTC 1996 |
electric cars have another problem in cold climates: How do you keep the
ocupants warm? Cold also reduces the amount of energy you can draw from
the batteries. There is an electric car parked in the street near where
I live. The front license plate claims "The future is electric!" It hasn't
moved all winter. (It's and older model from the '70 or so. The owner had
been working on it for years before it was moved into the road this fall.
Could be it's not done yet too.)
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mcpoz
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response 12 of 23:
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Jan 19 02:28 UTC 1996 |
Battery efficiency goes down as temp drops and electric motor efficiency goes
up as temp goes down.
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davel
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response 13 of 23:
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Jan 19 12:58 UTC 1996 |
But Klaus's other point is also kind of important. An internal combustion
engine produces all kinds of heat, enough that getting rid of it is
usually the problem. An electric car will produce lots less waste heat,
and electric heaters would be *major* drains on the batteries. Hmm.
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n8nxf
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response 14 of 23:
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Jan 19 15:16 UTC 1996 |
r.e. #12 Battery efficiency drops a lot further / given temp. reduction
than motor efficiency increases / same temp. reduction. The net result
is less range in the cold.
Being a year-around bicycle commuter, I find that the bicycle is a far
better alternative then either gas or electric. Staying warm isn't too
difficult either ;)
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davel
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response 15 of 23:
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Jan 19 22:23 UTC 1996 |
Really? I find it so. Or, rather, when it's really cold & I dress for it
I find that parts of me get warm (*too* warm) but parts still get dangerously
cold. (And visibility through fogged glasses becomes a problem.)
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mcpoz
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response 16 of 23:
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Jan 20 00:08 UTC 1996 |
#13 - we could always revive the volkswagen beetle gasoline-burning heater.
#14 - true about the range droping.
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scg
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response 17 of 23:
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Jan 20 07:18 UTC 1996 |
re 15:
It all depends on how you dress. I find my normal winter jacket gets
way too cold when biking in cold weather, because even though it's well
insulated the cold air gets in around the jacket far too easily for biking
speeds. OTOH, my usual combination of a sweat shrit and a wind breaker keeps
me quite comfortable, while everybody who sees me assumes I must be freezing.
It doesn't take much insulation to keep warm while riding hard, and the
windbreaker is well enough sealed around the edges to keep the wind out. Warm
gloves, and a hat that's warm enough to keep the head comfortable, but thin
enough to fit under a helmet, are also a must.
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n8nxf
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response 18 of 23:
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Jan 22 19:17 UTC 1996 |
I dress in layers. Down to about 10f I wear T-shirt, thin wool sweater and
wind breaker on top and poly long-johns, shorts and wind pants below. Loose
fitting nylon seakers with a tight weave, wool socks and poly socks on the
skin. A light wool-poly blend hat goes under the helmet. At lower temps.
I'll add the traditional poly/woll ski mask, heavy poly long-johns and heavy
poly T-shirt. I've commuted the 5 miles to work down to -15 without too
much trouble. Flexability and simplicity is No. 1 for my commuting wardrobe.
I don't try to make a fashion statement. Fashion statement = be
uncomfortable ;)
Oh, el-cheap-o cotten garden golves work fine to about 30F for we. Cold
temps and I pull over a pair of leather mits with cuffs up to my elbows.
When it's cold outside, it's important that your outer layer be wind-tight.
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scg
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response 19 of 23:
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Jan 24 06:28 UTC 1996 |
I've got a pair of those Pearl Izumi lobster gloves, which seem to work quite
nicely.
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awijaya
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response 20 of 23:
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Aug 19 17:54 UTC 1997 |
Hello. I hear about new cars using turbine / gas turbine from VW and
new cheap US$ 10 K electric cars from TAIWAN (FIC). Unfortunately
The carhave top speed of 40 mph and range of 60 Mph.
Whayt is your comment/opinions?
Best regards (AW)
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n8nxf
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response 21 of 23:
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Aug 20 11:30 UTC 1997 |
The electric car would do me just fine for my 5 mile, in-town, commute
to and from work. I would prefer a hybrid though.
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scott
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response 22 of 23:
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Aug 21 16:23 UTC 1997 |
An enclosed 3-wheel electric for in-town use (4 miles to work, groceries, etc)
would be cool. But I also try to bike a lot, which is even cheaper.
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n8nxf
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response 23 of 23:
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Aug 22 15:38 UTC 1997 |
Indeed :-) However, winters and nights can be pretty risky at times.
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