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danr
Bikes in Traffic Mark Unseen   Sep 14 10:49 UTC 1991

This item is to talk about the business of riding bikes in traffic.
According to Michigan law, bikes are a vehicle just like a car or
truck, and therefore have a right to use most roads.  They are
prohibited from using most freeways, though.

Because bicycles are vehicles, cyclists must also follow all traffic
laws.  This means riding the wrong way down a one-way street or
rolling through stop signs are violations.  When I lived in San Diego,
I actually got a ticket for running a stop sign.

I don't have the law in front of me, but it says that bikes must ride
as far right as practical.  The key word is "practical."  If the road
is bad or there is glass on the road, a cyclist will move over.

If a bike lane is provided, the cyclist must ride in the bike lane.
Again, if the road is bad or there is glass in the bike lane, the
cyclist may move out of the lane.

My advice to cyclists is to keep alert when riding in traffic, and try
to position yourself so as to be visible to motorists.  I am also
somewhat aggressive about asserting my rights to the road.  I like to
make eye contact with motorists to assure that they see me.  In more
than five years, and probably 10,000 miles of cycling, I have yet to
have a serious brush with a car.
46 responses total.
mythago
response 1 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 14 12:43 UTC 1991

I've had more problems with people in the bike paths than with cars.
(Of course, I try to be courteous to car drivers, so they seem to be
returning the favor.)  People on other bikes who don't scootch over
a little, walkers who don't move, parents on family walks who let their
kids wander around randomly (i.e. in front of my bike)....
klaus
response 2 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 16 10:47 UTC 1991

I'm not sure if you are correct on the bike lane law Dan.  (Not to be
confused with bike pathes.)  It is difficult to make a left turn out
of a bike lane that confines you to the right side of the road, not
to mention illegal.
danr
response 3 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 16 11:37 UTC 1991

I didn't mean to imply that you had to make a left turn out of the
bike lane.  The way I read it, though, you do have to stay in the bike
lane if you are proceeding straight down the road.
ragnar
response 4 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 04:59 UTC 1991

Is there any local ordinance about the bike paths the city spent my money
to lay down all over, and the posted "official bike routes"?
bad
response 5 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 07:39 UTC 1991

Heh...you must not ride the paths much. The newest (fuller-gallup-
dixboro) is a decent one, but the rest of them haven't been touched since
they were laid down. I challenge Dan Romanchik to ride his bike on the 
path on Huron Parkway from Plymouth to Washtenaw without screwing up his
rims.
        And all they seem to require of a "sidewalk bicycle route" is 
something that looks vaguely like curb cuts. AA-EMU via Packard is a good
example of this. Most of the curb cuts are 1" or greater lips.
        And the sidewalk itself is no less trashed than any other.

        Anyway, there are definitely time on the "official" biek routes
that it's safer to ride in the street.

        Conversely, there are any number of idiots who ride in the street when
there's a perfectly fine sidewalk path alternative. I see this 
every day on Fuller. The blind, no-shoulder part by my apt buildings has 
a mediocre but more than rideable, amply wide sidewalk. But idiots 
still insist on riding in the street. Sometimes even against traffic.

        So, uh, I don't know what my point is. Excpet the obvious
obsession.

        Oh, and that they don't spend near as much as you think on the 
paths. 
mythago
response 6 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 10:35 UTC 1991

The path down Huron Parkway is +miserable+.  Ruts, overhanging branches,
a huge hill, cracks big enough to swallow you and your bike....too bad
it's more dangerous to ride on Huron Parkway.
danr
response 7 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 11:23 UTC 1991

Why should I ride that bikepath?  As I believe I said somewhere else,
bike paths are generally unsa, and in this case, poorly maintained.
As I live on the west side of town, I can avoid Huron Pkwy altogether.

As to city ordinances, I don't believe there are any that require
cyclists to use them.  I did not live in AA before they were put in,
but it sounds like good intentions not jibing with reality.
princess
response 8 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 21:19 UTC 1991

Do bikers HAVE to obey stop signs, etc???
bad
response 9 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 22:36 UTC 1991

Legally, yes, if they're in the street.

For safety and courtesy, they MOST DEFINITELY should, if there are any cars,
pedestrians, or anything at or close to the intersection. My rule of thumb 
is, if I can see a car, I obey the signs. The only time I don't is out in the 
middle of nowhere, or on hills when every direction is completely clear (so
as not to lose all momentum when going uphill).

I wish to hell Ann Arbor cops would start ticketing bicyclists in town. I 
realize they've got other things to do, but it's at the point where it's an
extreme safety hazard. The eplosion of mountain bikes on the scene, and the
"ecologically correctness" of biking has put so many more idiots on the 
road it makes my head spin. If you hear someone yelling "one way street!",
"Stop sign!" or "red LIGHT!!!" it's probably me. Going to work I saw, oh, 
about 20 people disobeying laws in dangerous ways. The non-dangerous (just
obnoxious) ones were to numerous to mention.

        Oh, and a safety tip: 

        *** Be aware of what type of lane you're in, as a cyclist! This is
an exception (sort of) to the keep-right rule! If you are in a right-turn-
only lane, EVERY car in that lane is going to turn right! If you go straight,
and are on the right side of these cars...You will get hit! Especially 
dangerous because people turning right very often are looking exclusively
to the LEFT, watching for traffic! Keep to the right IN YOUR LANE, but be 
ready to change lanes when neccesary, signaling first, of course! ***

        And at any intersection, when stopped, you should be IN THE MIDDLE
of a lane, anyway. If you come up on the right (or left) side of cars, they
may very well not notice you, and turn into you. Even if they're not signaling,
it doesn't mean they're not turning. Once you're across the intersection, 
move back to the right side.
ragnar
response 10 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 18 04:29 UTC 1991

One thing I have seen at least one example of is stop signs in the bike paths
The one I've seen, and was glad to see, was at Huron Parkway and Huron River
Drive.
bad
response 11 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 18 07:41 UTC 1991

A fairly treacherous area. 
Oh, and Dan, I was saying you should ride Huron Parkway so you'd see 
why I tell people to get mountain bikes. I have to ride that a couple of
times a month, usually, and every time, I say "boy am I glad this bike can
mostly take this". Of course, with all the bouncing I'm doing on the path,
you can hardly make out what I'm saying...
There are stop signs on the gallup path at Fuller, and some people actually 
stop! I am stunned each and every time!
ragnar
response 12 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 19 02:21 UTC 1991

I used to take that path, I always thought it in decent shape.  But of course,
that's because Geddes downhill to the river was my alternative...
bad
response 13 of 46: Mark Unseen   Sep 19 03:27 UTC 1991

The path is okay from Plymouth to Geddes...and after Washtenaw.
kt8k
response 14 of 46: Mark Unseen   Feb 20 14:24 UTC 1993

I am pleased and impressed to see such good sense expressed here.  As a cyclist
of more than 20 years who rides both night and day I have always been appalled
at the vast numbers of unsafe and inept cyclists in Ann Arbor-Ypsi, but 
realize that most of them have never cycled in such an environment until they
were sent off to school without a car, and have no understanding of how to
safely use the road and their equipment.  I have pondered for years whether a
driver's ed. and licensing for bicyclists should be put in place, but am still
not sure if the cost justifies the result.  It would be a long time before
people would take it seriously, especially in this transient town, and there
would be little or no enforcement.  I would be glad to take (or teach) 
effective cycling, and I know there have been some good classes taught in this
town as I remember seeing one of them on cable public access a few years ago.
We need more of that, including on cable, and perhaps the most effective way
to address it would be through the city bicycle coordinator (do they still
have one?) and a similar position at the University, to reach all possible
parents of resident students both in AA and wherever they are, and make the
case that the safety of their kids depends on receiving basic skills and 
safety training about cycling.  That might make a small dent in the problem, 
but would require resources that the city and the big U might not be willing
to commit.  As it is, the bozo cyclists give the rest of us a bad image, and
we all suffer as a result.  Does anyone have other ideas?
klaus
response 15 of 46: Mark Unseen   Feb 22 13:26 UTC 1993

In general, I'm against most laws.  I prefer education instead, though this
is more difficult to adminester than a law.  Licensing means little.  Just
look at the way some licensed drivers drive.  Since drivers education is
required in most states, maybe some mention of bicycling should be made 
there.  Often even the police are not aware of laws r.e. bicycles.  Perhaps
literature could be included with every bicycle sold and 1 of the 10 questions
asked of drivers for re-licensing could pertain to bicyclests.  I also feel
that social views on bicyclists plays an important role.  The people in Ann
Arbor are quite tolerant, and often respectful of bicyclists.  Get out towards
Whitmore lake and beyond and it's like stepping back in time.  Last summer,
while riding west of Whitmore, I had 3 people yell at me while I was out 
riding around the lakes there.  One of them was mowing the lawn in his front
yard!
Reuben Chapman is the current Bicycle Coordinator to the best of my knowledge,
though I think it's part time.
mistik
response 16 of 46: Mark Unseen   Feb 24 20:26 UTC 1993

Well, I am less tolerant on cyclists driving on sidewalks trying to run over
pedestrians.  They shouldn't be on the sidewalk except for going against
the one way direction on one way streets.  They should obey red lights
just like cars, and should not go faster than a pedestrian if they are using
the sidewalk or street crossing from the sidewalk.  The last one is
really dangerous both for the cyclists and car driver.
danr
response 17 of 46: Mark Unseen   Mar 5 12:15 UTC 1993

Maybe the AA police should make one day each quarter "bicycle
enforcement" day and ticket cyclists breaking traffic laws.  The
penalty for infractions could be a bicycle safety class.
hubcap
response 18 of 46: Mark Unseen   May 21 12:59 UTC 1993

Ditto the last few responses.  I bike to work on campus every day,
and there are times you can't believe how fast some of these a*holes
ride on crowded sidewalks.  Lots of cyclists seem also to believe
that stop signs and traffic lights are only for motorists.
dwarf
response 19 of 46: Mark Unseen   Apr 11 00:32 UTC 1994

responf
respond
ke and he got hurt, and I knw that cars are very dangerous.  If i went in the
road i  would follow the signs, but i don't, and when i'm on the sidewalk i try
 d people, but what pisses me off is a*holes wallking on the street who take up
the whole f*king sidewalk, i cant get around, i especally hate it when they are
coming towards me and don't move.

kentn
response 20 of 46: Mark Unseen   Apr 11 01:08 UTC 1994

If they are walking on the street, how are they taking up the whole
sidewalk?
 
danr
response 21 of 46: Mark Unseen   Apr 11 11:54 UTC 1994

I think he was talking about a group of people taking up the entire
sidewalk.  I've noticed that lately, too.  People are getting very impolite.
kentn
response 22 of 46: Mark Unseen   Apr 11 15:13 UTC 1994

I'll agree, people in general are getting very impolite.  It's not
any different for the pedestrians -- who won't yield to each other
on sidewalks.  It's just plain hazardous to be out and about I guess.
n8nxf
response 23 of 46: Mark Unseen   Apr 12 11:56 UTC 1994

Life in the big city  :-(

scg
response 24 of 46: Mark Unseen   Apr 12 20:17 UTC 1994

Cyclists reaally shouldn't complain about pedestrians on the sidewalk.  If
you don't like going at the speed of the pedestrians, use the street. 
That's what it's there for.
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