Cold weather vehicular transportation

Dec 10 19:52 UTC 2002

Discuss any problems of getting from here to there by vehicle in winter
weather.

response 2 of 64:

Dec 10 21:22 UTC 2002

Meijer has 99% isopropanol. 

However even 99% isopropanol *contains water*, which will separate out
when mixed with gasoline (water is *very* insoluble in gasoline). 

Using anhydrous methanol or isopropanol is adding an "oxygenate" to the
gasoline, very similar to ethanol in many respects - you are concocting
your own "gasohol". There are drawbacks, however: 

Methanol has been found to damage some fuel system gaskets, at least
at one time. Corrosion inhibitors are required with methanol.

http://www.ethanol-gec.org/clean/cf14.htm gives some ranges for use
of MBTE, ethanol and methanol as fuel additive.

Any oxygenate will tend to *absorb* moisture and may enhance the
emulsification of water into gasoline. If this separates out and freezes,
or causes corrosion, in the wrong parts, it could be trouble.

So...beware.

response 4 of 64:

Dec 10 22:47 UTC 2002

Jim also wonders whether it would help to pour dry gas into the filter before
running the car, in case the ice has formed in there.  (This is for his
housemate's car, which he is trying to fix at the same time).  I will let him
know that you two are implying that the store product is more than 97%
isopropanol (which is what he can buy at the drugstore - not 99%).  

response 6 of 64:

Dec 11 02:57 UTC 2002

Jim is annoyed at his car, which would not start, and he just finished
changing the fuel pump (he proved the gasoline was not going through the old
one) for $35, and now it still won't start, unless he pours gasoline into the
air entry to the carburetor so now he has to take that apart and clean it.
What might have caused both of these parts to go bad since April, when the
car was last driven?  Could it have been ice?  He cannot sell it easily unless
it will start, regardless of the exhaust system.  He says he does not want
to own a car.  The neighbor who gave us his old 1986 car (which does start)
offers to lend us his newer station wagon with a car-top carrier for long
items.  (Still won't handle refrigerators as well as a hatchback).  

response 8 of 64:

Dec 11 14:59 UTC 2002

I suspect gas that has gone bad.  It could also be a bad electric fuel
pump, if this car has one -- sometimes they seize.

Since it runs if he pours gas into the carb, we know the ignition system
is working and the engine has compression.  The first thing I would do
is see if fuel is actually getting to the carburator.  Take the hose off
the carburator, stick it in some kind of container, and (carefully!) see
if fuel comes out when you crank the engine.  (On some cars, merely
turning the key on will be enough.)  If fuel comes out, the problem is
in the carburator.  If fuel doesn't come out, there's a bad fuel pump or
a blockage someone in the system.

response 10 of 64:

Dec 11 17:08 UTC 2002

But if you read carefully my previous response, you will note that Jim just
replaced the bad fuel pump ;)

How often would one need to run a car so that these things don't happen?

Can someone explain to me (who has not looked inside a car) just how the fuel
pump, hose, carburetor, engine, etc., are connected together?  Jim is a lot
better at fixing things than explaining them.  He says he wants an electric
car if he has to have a car because they don't have any of the above to go
bad and if you store them in a garage to prevent rust, and charge the battery
a bit once in a while, they ought to be usable twice a year without clogging
or freezing.  But nobody has offered him a free used electric car.  

The other solution is a car coop but there are rumors that they would have
to pay astronomical insurance rates.  Borrowing the neighbor's car would work
except we go to Detroit twice a year for a few days at a time.  Biking from
the train station (15 miles through the more interesting parts of Detroit)
would be possible but I don't like biking in late December due to ice. 
Getting a ride (30 miles round trip) from the train station would work. 
Detroit might conceivably even run buses to Warren.

response 12 of 64:

Dec 11 19:51 UTC 2002

The cost of renting a car is actually quite a bit more than the cost of owning
one which you only insure for a few days a year and do your own maintenance
on.  It was $30/3 days for rental plus $75 for the insurance to rent a car.
Owning a car costs $27/year for a license plate plus $20/month for insurance
and our insurance company lets us suspend it for all but a few days a year.
This year it is also costing $35 for a fuel pump - total cost $27 plus $35
plus a few dollars for insurance.  And $4 for dry gas.  Still way under the
$200 or so it would cost to rent twice a year.  But also a lot of Jim's time.
He is still trying to track down where between the fuel pump and the
carburetor air intake is clogged, one step at a time.  Cheap entertainment
and free education.  At least it is warmer out today.  

Would it help to run it in the driveway for a few minutes every month?

response 14 of 64:

Dec 11 22:44 UTC 2002

check with SMART to see if there is a bus from Detroit Amtrak (or the 
Royal Oak Amtrak station) to Warren. 

response 16 of 64:

Dec 12 16:26 UTC 2002

This reminds me of the time I was on a long trip late at night with a
bunch of people and in order to pass the time and stay awake I asked a
young woman to try to explain how an automobile operates. She didn't know
much at all about autos, so her explanation was absolutely hilarious and
instead of being in danger of falling asleep I was in danger of driving
off the road while laughing so hard.

In regard to the above - I've generally had the feeling that gasoline is
already concocted to do what it is meant to do, and that these
"additives", like STP and Stabil, etc, are mostly "snake oil" remedies
that do more to empty your pockets than anything for the operation of a
vehicle. They may be otherwise harmless, but they may also be detrimental.

response 18 of 64:

Dec 12 17:13 UTC 2002

Yes, I have a gutter-mounting roof rack I will sell for $20. In fact,
it came off a 1986 car, so should feel right at home again. E-mail me.

response 20 of 64:

Dec 12 20:58 UTC 2002

Re #16: I agree in most cases, but Stabil has a good reputation, and I've
used it with good results.  Gasoline you buy at the pump is formulated with
the idea you'll use it within a few weeks, because most people do.  Putting
in the kinds of additives that are in Stabil would increase the price
without doing most people any good.

response 22 of 64:

Dec 13 00:46 UTC 2002

Jim says there is a strong solvent called carburetor cleaner.
In the process of trying to get at the saw he is cleaning out all the bikes
from the garage and making space for one car - which one?
We have 14 aluminum front wheels for mountain bikes and three mountain bikes
without front wheels.
He was supposed to be crawling under the car today but got sidetracked.
He may do it tomorrow in the freezing rain instead.  Or in the dark.

response 24 of 64:

Dec 13 05:34 UTC 2002

That fear is what all those manufacturers of various concoctions to add to
your gas or oil count on. I find it very hard, though, to find reports of
good scientific tests of them. That may be in part that no one wants to
spend the money to show some $3 can of stuff doesn't work, as hardly
anyone would learn about that (and the company can always quickly
repackage the stuff). 

I never used any concoctions in the 1986 Subaru I recently scrapped.  The
engine was doing fine, the only engine work had been replacing the timing
belt, it used little oil, gas mileage was near new. However the body had
rusted beyond safety limits at 187,000 miles. Using any additives would
have been just wasting money. 

I look up the MSDS for Sta-Bil Fuel Stabilizer, a Gold Eagle Co product.
Its composition is given as

     0 - 5 %    ADDITIVE  (that's the snake oil)
    95 - 100 %  HEAVY AROMATIC NAPHTHA (SOLVENT NAPHTHA)
     0 - 5 %    NAPHTHALENE

That's the catch in MSDSs, of course. They don't have to identify all
the ingredients chemically - just identify the hazards associated with
the product.