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| Author |
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keesan
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Railed vehicles
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Mar 14 17:00 UTC 1998 |
The item to discuss trains, trolley buses, trams, and other forms of rail
transportation
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| 57 responses total. |
vishnu
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response 1 of 57:
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Mar 15 08:38 UTC 1998 |
Actually,I was not specifically talking of connecting the North Maerica to
Siberia but to the whole of Asia and beyond to Africa an Europe.Imagine a long
distance train from the Cape of Good Hope to Cape Horn(the tip of South
America through Asia and North America or London to New York through Russia
.It could provide impressive and interesting possiblities to travellers and
tourists alike.I dont know the staus of the ambitious project to connect west
asia with europe.Even India could be linked to Sri Lanka but politics and
economics(short-term) hyave not helped the region.Bye folks and Good Day.
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keesan
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response 2 of 57:
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Mar 16 04:30 UTC 1998 |
Just how do you intend to cross the Bering Strait with a train? An extra-long
chunnel or a ferry? Do you think there is currently enough train traffic
between Alaska and Siberia to justify the expense? Isn't West Asia already
connected with Europe via Turkey? (Murder on the Orient Express... I made
the mistake of taking the bus from Greece to Turkey, and discovered that part
of the route involved walking across the bridge from the nearest Greek village
to the nearest Turkish border point, where some nice border workers jammed
the two of us, plus suitcases, into the back seat of a VW bug that already
had a passenger or two, then took us to the nearest townn, put us on a private
minivan, got us seats, and made sure we were not overcharged.)
(It may have helped that I had studied a bit of Turkish and was trying hard.)
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scg
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response 3 of 57:
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Mar 16 05:10 UTC 1998 |
The problem with a train from Cape Horn to the Cape of Good Hope is that it
would be horrendously expensive and would take a very long time. That's the
sort of trip that airplanes do very well. Building the rail line might be
interesting from the standpoint of being able to say you'd done it, but I
doubt you'd have more than a few passengers.
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keesan
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response 4 of 57:
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Mar 16 05:39 UTC 1998 |
ANyone heard about progress on upgrading the rail line from Detroit to Chicago
to go twice the speed of cars? That would draw a lot of passenger traffic,
only a 3 hours trip and no need to get to and from an airport.
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vishnu
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response 5 of 57:
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Mar 16 13:46 UTC 1998 |
I feel that the US could do something to better its rail transport.It would
reduce the burden on its highways.I find it strange that more Americans prefer
carsto trains as the mode of transportation.Trains can be faster,cleaner,safer
and most important reduce the pressure of you having to drive and let some
one else drive.The other thing that Steve mentioned about traffic being less
between the two capes,I wasnt expecting more than one or two passengers to
make it through the entire trip but you could still have lots of passengers
from ,say Brazil to ,say Mexico.The train would go all the way though.In fact
in India we have a train from India's southern most tip in the mainland to
the national capital(i.e from Kanniyakumari to New delhi).But kanniyakumari
itself is a very small town.But the train passes through several important
cities and the train is running reasonably well patronized.Guys can ask me
in this forum about anything to do with Indian Railways.Happy railing.
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omni
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response 6 of 57:
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Mar 16 16:21 UTC 1998 |
Come and live in Detroit for a month, you'll change your tune. We are not
the Car capitol of the world for nothing.
Actually, I am a train buff, I have a mild appreciation for trains, and
I think you can sum up what is wrong with the rails in just one word- Amtrak.
Well, that and trains in this country run through some of the ugliest,
depressed areas that can be found, save for the Cardinal, which is one route
that Amtrak got right, and one that is actually profitable.
Americans are in love with thier cars. Always have been, always will be.
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keesan
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response 7 of 57:
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Mar 16 16:54 UTC 1998 |
There is so little left to the American train system that it is hardly usable.
Ann Arbor-Toledo line, 100 km distance, stopped running passenger trains in
1950. To take the train you now have to take a bus to Detroit (100 km east),
get from the bus to the train station somehow (walk? and hope not to be killed
on th way?), wait a few hours (there are only three buses a day, and one
train, plus the train company has one bus but it is often full), and take a
train to Toledo, which arrives around 1 a. m. To continue east, you wait
until 4 a. m. The 800 mile (1300 km?) trip from Ann Arbor to Boston, which
is a 16 hour drive by car, is (or was, probably worse now) 24 by train.
Airplanes finished off what cars started.
Ann Arbor-Chicago is about 300 miles, 5 hours by car or train. Car
is much cheeaper if you own one because highways are subsidized by general
taxes and trains are not very full and therefore the tickets are expensive.
A train on an improved track could go up to 150 miles/hour = 2 hours if there
were no stops. People fly that distance now and take two hours to drive to
the airport, leave their car parked there, buy a ticket, and fly, and then
another hour or so getting into town from the airport. If the train tracks
were upgraded, there would be lots of passengers switching from plane to
train.
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scg
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response 8 of 57:
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Mar 16 20:41 UTC 1998 |
Yeah, a high speed train from Ann Arbor or Detroit to Chicago would be pretty
cool. That's the sort of trip that trains do really well. However, a trip
across Siberia really isn't. That's a situation where airplanes realy are
the ideal.
There are parts of the US that do have excellent public transportation
systems. South Eastern Michigan isn't one of them, however.
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keesan
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response 9 of 57:
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Mar 16 23:33 UTC 1998 |
The route between Boston and Washington D. C. is heavily travelled, and
probably helps keep other Amtrak fares subsidized. You would have to be crazy
to want to drive in New York City.
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vishnu
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response 10 of 57:
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Mar 17 14:12 UTC 1998 |
Actually there are so few trains between India and Pakistahn,Thanks to the
political situation between the two countries that its a thrice a week train
between the two border cities.I think that would have to be strengthened
before even thinking of the somewhat ambitious intercontinental rail
service.India could even have a good rail service to Singapore. and Hong
Kong.I heard there were double decker trains in the Bay Area.Are they
successful?In India,their services are highly restricted and I dont know
why.They are slower but our trains do not go faster than 60-70 kmph..
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scg
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response 11 of 57:
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Mar 17 22:49 UTC 1998 |
I've ridden double decker trains in the Chicago area too. I can think of a
number of reasons why they wouldn't be more widely used. They require more
clearance above the tracks than most trains. That probably makes them
impractical in tunnels that weren't designed for them. They're more top
heavy, meaning they can't go around corners as fast. They would also be less
aerodynamic, although I don't know how that balances out with creating shorter
trains, which are prosumably somewhat lighter.
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keesan
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response 12 of 57:
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Mar 18 01:03 UTC 1998 |
I can't think of any advantages to double decker trains unless the tracks are
exceptionally crowded (the reason for London's double decker buses). The
higher trains also have more wind resistance). I rode a very slow local
double decker train in Romania. The view from the top is a bit less
obstructed in some areas, but there was only flat farmland there. Maybe that
is the cheapest used train they could find? I rode one narrow-gauge line
through Bosnia once, probably was not worth the cost of upgrading through the
mountains, but we had to get off and transfer to a wide-gauge.
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omni
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response 13 of 57:
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Mar 18 03:22 UTC 1998 |
Amtrak has Superliner cars which are double decked, but they are only used
on certain routes which are highly scenic. I don't know if they use
Superliners on the Cardinal (Chi-NYC via Cincinnati and Charleston) because
of the Big Bend Tunnel. I have stood on top of the tunnel, but I don't know
what the clearances are.
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scott
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response 14 of 57:
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Mar 18 12:06 UTC 1998 |
I'd prefer trains for a number of travel situations, but Detroit spent a lot
of money working to kill off the passenger railroads so cars would sell
better. :(
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keesan
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response 15 of 57:
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Mar 18 18:02 UTC 1998 |
How is the new People Mover working out, and how does it work?
Does it pay for itself?
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omni
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response 16 of 57:
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Mar 19 07:21 UTC 1998 |
What? The one in Detroit? I can tell you how it works, but not if it is
profitable.
1. Go to Ren Center. Proceed to the People Mover station. Wait.
2. Train arrives going from west to east. There is one train every 4.5
minutes.
3. Pay fare as you enter the station. Note gaudy artwork and transit cop.
Also please note emptyness of station.
4. When train arrives, board and get a seat. Pick any one, because mostly
they are all empty.
5. In 30 seconds, chimes sound and doors close. Train begins to move.
6. Entire circuit of People Mover takes 14 minutes.
7. Please note that train passes through Cobo Hall.
8. Please note that you may ride as long as you want to, or until you puke,
whichever comes first.
Please ignore all the cynicism in the above. I was living in Detroit when
they built that monster, and for my money it could go a hell of a lot farther
than it does. It is a good idea, but isn't more than a plaything.
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vishnu
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response 17 of 57:
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Mar 19 12:50 UTC 1998 |
The main advantage I see in a double decker train is its ability to carry more
passengers.I also second the view that the sight is better from the upper
deck.In India,unfortunately we had double deck trains which had the height
of ordinary single deck trains.The resuilt was the ceiling was much lower.We
also had a lot of narrow gauge rail here(0.77mts).But under the ambitious
uni-gauge system all the tracks are being made broad gauge.Hail the iron
horse.I feel it will one day outdo the road and air as the prime means of
transportation.Its pretty eco-friendly(running on electricity).
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keesan
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response 18 of 57:
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Mar 19 20:17 UTC 1998 |
The iron horse used to be the primary form of motorized transportation on land
until the car and plane started being used. I look forward to the day when
trains are again the normal form of transport here, along with electric
trolleys, all of which do not pollute where people are living (and the sourc
eof pollution is stationery and can have scrubbers attached, and the
cogenerated waste heat can be used to heat buildings).
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vishnu
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response 19 of 57:
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Mar 20 03:46 UTC 1998 |
Actually,Keesan ,you know the rail has the capability to match the plane in
its speed and taking into account the time required to check-into a plane and
driving to the airport(in most cities the airport is atleast 20kms from the
main town),I feel that the power of the rail is yet to be exploited to its
fullest.Besides enough research has not gone into making trains go faster
although only Japan and France seem to be doing a lot in this field.I hear
that trams are staging a comeback in many European cities.Thats good news.
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scg
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response 20 of 57:
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Mar 20 03:51 UTC 1998 |
I think that depends on the distance you're talking about. Going from Ann
Arbor to Chicago may be faster by train, all things considered. It is
probably also faster by car, all things considered. Ann Arbor to California
would be much faster by plane.
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keesan
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response 21 of 57:
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Mar 20 21:09 UTC 1998 |
But Ann Arbor to Boston, 800 miles at 150 mph by train, would be about 6 hours
with a few short stops. If I try to go by plane, I have to walk to the
Michigan Union (no longer stops at the Embassy Hotel), ride 1 1/2 hours to
all the other hotels, spend an hour at the airport, two in the plane, and then
at least one at the other end, or more than 6 hours. the train station is
much closer for me than the Union, and is connected directly with the subway
at the other ened, no need to take a bus first. To California I agree, but
you get to see a lot more from the train.
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scg
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response 22 of 57:
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Mar 21 01:32 UTC 1998 |
The other aproach to that would be, half hour by car to the airport, hour at
the airport, two on the plane, and then maybe another half hour at the airport
and maybe half an hour by car into Boston, or 4.5 hours.
Is there an Ann Arbor to Boston train? Are there US trains that go 150 mph?
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keesan
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response 23 of 57:
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Mar 21 01:46 UTC 1998 |
I am speaking public transportation. Taxis are expensive and a waste of
resources. Ann Arbor to Boston you have to take a train to Detroit (or a
bus), then wait for a bus to Toledo, then a 4 am train to Boston, it used to
be 24 hours, have not checked recently. There was no way fo a visitor coming
by train via Toledo to get here between the time the train arrived about 5
am (from the east), and the bus at 9 a. m. to Detroit, arriving at 10, and
I forget how long he had to wait for the bus or train from Detroit, but it
would have been only three hours by slow bike. I tried to connect with the
van pool but their computer was down and then they never called. This country
has atrocious public transportation.
There was talk a while back about upgrading the train tracks DT-CHI
so that rains could go that fast.
Would you rather spend 6 hours on a train or 1 in a car, 1 at an
airport, and 2 on a plane? I would choose the train any day, you can read
a book, look out the side window, or talk to people, or walk around.
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scg
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response 24 of 57:
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Mar 21 03:24 UTC 1998 |
All this is moot since the 150 mph trains in the US are hypothetical. That
said, I'd choose the plane. It's two hours faster, even assuming the stuff
in the airport takes a full hour..
More realistically, I tend to drive even in situations where planes would make
more sense, since it requires less advance planning.
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