Ginsberg and the Beats

Feb 12 05:18 UTC 2000

For our study of poetry in English this year we have to read a collection of
a single poet's work, read some literary criticism concerning the poems, and 
write some "responses" of our own to it. I've chosen to read Allen Ginsberg's
_Howl and Other Poems_, having read the first and second parts of "Howl" in a
collection of favorite american poets.
"Howl" is truly one of my favorite poems. The first time I happened on it in
the collection, it just seized hold of me and I couldn't put the book down or
think about anything else until I'd finished reading it (or perhaps more 
accurately, until it had finished with me ;-) The poem is so *immediate* and
its language direct, whimsical, lyrical and shocking. Our textbook talks about
"poetry and antipoetry"--the two extremes, stereotypical greeting-card
prettiness and deliberately vile ugliness. That's I think one thing that makes
_Howl_ a great poem (for me, at least)-it achieves a perfect balance between
the two. It is a poem that is partially about the alienation of Ginsberg's
generation (parts I and II) but also a love poem (part III) to the poet's
dying friend/lover Carl Solomon (at least, that's what *I* thought it was
about, though I could be completely wrong). And it often describes ugly things
in a sublimely lyrical way, as in the following line (turns off cd, runs 
upstairs to fetch book): 
"who sat in boxes breathing in the darkness under the bridge, and rose up to
build harpsichords in their lofts"

"A Supermarket in California" is also a wonderful poem.

Anyway, that's what I think. Is there anyone else here who likes Allen Ginsberg
and the other Beat writers?

response 2 of 23:

Feb 18 04:00 UTC 2000

I often find myself mentally "saying" the words of Howl or whispering it 
quietly when I read it to myself--I don't know if I do that with all other
poetry, and certainly not with all prose.
Kerouac wrote fiction rather than poems, didn't he? What is it like, generally
speaking?

response 4 of 23:

Feb 25 05:29 UTC 2000

Thanks for the reference, I'll look for it at the library tomorrow afternoon.
One of the poems in _Howl_ talks about Ginsberg sitting down near the railroad
yard with Kerouac, and there is also a reference to 'N.C.' in "Howl" itself.
Did Kerouac and Ginsberg cease to be good friends for some particular reason,
or did they just drift apart? The other Kerouac item in this cf.
(sorry, don't remember the number) talks about his being "unable to escape
his Catholic upbringing."

Somebody else in my English class is reading "Howl" (presumably an excerpt) 
for their presentation for the class, so I'm going to do "Supermarket in 
California" instead.

I'd also sorta like to get the Kronos Quartet's CD, "Howl, U.S.A." which 
features a musical setting of the poem as read by Ginsberg himself.

response 6 of 23:

Feb 26 20:46 UTC 2000

I'm not actually a big beat poetry fan at the moment.  A few years back I
thought that Ginsberg was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and the more
poetry I've read since then the less I've liked him - but the more I've
realized how original and shocking some of his stuff must have been.  

response 8 of 23:

Mar 1 08:49 UTC 2000

re #4 They drifited apart because Kerouad became a bitter drunken
morose Catholic who lived with his mom, while Ginsburg became
an outspoken advocate for gay rights and proto hippy in the
early 60s.  Yes the beat writing is of uneven quality, but when
they are on they wtie some the best lines in the business, while
the whole work may be weak IMO.  See also William Burroughs "Naked
Lunch" (warning not for the easily disturbed).
Makes Howl look like a puritan sermon.

response 10 of 23:

Mar 2 03:58 UTC 2000

I was surprised to earn that Beat poet Hugh
Romney metamorphosed into Wavy Gravy, the
Woodstock guy.

response 12 of 23:

Mar 8 05:23 UTC 2000

re 8, yes, I was going to say something along those lines (about beat poetry
being of uneven quality, although sometimes really good). "America" from the
"Howl" book, for instance, strikes me more as an attempt to be shocking and
piss people off than as a well-written poem, as does "Footnote to Howl." But
I still love "Howl" itself.

response 14 of 23:

Mar 9 06:49 UTC 2000

re #13  Hmmm some people I think have pretty legitimate problems with the
status quo, such as poor people minorities, etc.  It isn't all just
sour grapes I think there is some legitimate anger there.  Many of the
beat writers were in fact shunned because of their sexuality, or
because they were women or black, or hung out with jazz muscians, etc.
They were pissed on first before they got pissed off.

The thing that grated on my nerves in bad beat writting is the use of canned
hip phrases like "hep cat," "threads," "wheels," etc.

response 16 of 23:

Mar 9 16:58 UTC 2000

That's what I like about some of it, actually.  You can get an interesting
sense of a time period by looking at what was considered new or interesting
then.

response 18 of 23:

Jun 4 11:07 UTC 2000

I too have read quite a few of Ginsberg's poems...I liked Howl, America etc.
for their originality...but there are many others which could have been muvh
better without the explicit homosexual elements...those are the poems one can
read and like but may not like to pescribe to others. The footnote to Howl
itself is a good poem...but I dont feel I would recommend it to others to
read.

response 20 of 23:

Jun 13 06:30 UTC 2000

Fine . Nothing is wrng in being an explicit homosexual. But points can be put
in even without being so explicit. Maybe in the sixties or even earlier
(fifties), it was necessary to be blunt and explicit to make one's voice heard
across.

response 22 of 23:

Jun 14 23:44 UTC 2000

<ducks and watches>