Backtalk Crash!

Tue Mar 7 01:16:57 2023
Oops! The authors of Backtalk are deeply sorry to confess that our program has failed to operate correctly. This is due to an error in Backtalk itself, or in one of Backtalk's script files, or in the configuration of the system. It is probably not due to anything you might have done. The page below contains an error message and a detailed dump of the state Backtalk was in when the error occurred. This may be useful to anyone trying to fix the problem.
All this information has been logged, but it may still be helpful for you to report this error and the circumstances under which it occurred to the system administrators.
Thanks for your assistance in getting the bugs out of this conferencing system. We sincerely and humbly beg your forgiveness.
ERROR: terminated by signal 11
executing "read_text" on line 31 of abalone/unreg.bt in call to procedure "form_text" on line 186 of abalone/read.bt in call to procedure "show_text" on line 415 of abalone/read.bt
Version: Backtalk version 1.3.30
Stack:
(<HTML><HEAD>\n<BASE HREF=")
(http://grex.org/cgi-bin/backtalk)
(/)
(abalone/)
(">\n<TITLE>)
(Grex Agora47 Conference Item 184)
(</TITLE>\n)
()
(<LINK REL=stylesheet TYPE="text/css" HREF=")
(https://grex.org/backtalk/css)
(/)
(abalone/)
(coffee)
(.css)
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(//-->\n</SCRIPT>\n</HEAD>\n<BODY>\n)
(<LINK REL="SHORTCUT ICON" HREF="/favicon.ico">\n)
(<TABLE BORDER=0 WIDTH=100%>\n  <TR CLASS=topbar>\n  <TD CLASS=hello WIDTH=50%>)
(You are not logged in. <A HREF=")
(https://)
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(/abalone/read)
(?)
(conf)
(=)
(agora47)
(&)
(isel)
(=)
(185-$)
(&)
(item)
(=)
(184)
(&)
(rsel)
(=)
(new)
(&)
(since)
(=)
(Thu+Jan++1+00:00:00+1970)
(&)
(showforgotten)
(=)
(0)
(&)
(csel)
(=)
()
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(<TR><TD CLASS=mast VALIGN=BOTTOM>)
/jumptable
(<TD CLASS=mast VALIGN=BOTTOM ALIGN=RIGHT>\n)
(<FORM NAME=)
(nav1)
( METHOD=POST ACTION=go onSubmit="return gopop2\(')
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('\);">\n<INPUT TYPE=hidden NAME=conf VALUE=)
(agora47)
(>\n<INPUT TYPE=hidden NAME=item VALUE=)
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(>\n)
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(<SELECT NAME=command onChange="if \(gopop2\(')
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('\)\) document.)
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(Item)
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(<SPAN CLASS=big><A HREF="begin">)
(Grex)
(</A> &gt; )
(<A HREF="confhome?conf=)
(agora47)
(">)
(Agora47)
(</A> &gt; #)
184
(: )
(Self-bugging systems.)
(</SPAN>)
(</TD><TD CLASS=navbar ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(</TD></TR></TABLE></TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD WIDTH=18% CLASS=colhead>Author</TD>\n<TD CLASS=colhead>Message</TD>\n</TR>\n)
(<TR>\n)
(<TD CLASS=even VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(gull)
(">)
(gull)
(</A></SPAN><BR>)
(<SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=even VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=even>\n  <SPAN CLASS=itemtitle>)
(Self-bugging systems.)
(</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=even ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
0
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 20 15:51)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>\n)
(</TABLE><HR>\n)
(<PRE>An appeals court recently rejected the FBI&#39;s attempt to use a\nnavigation/roadside assitance system \(probably On*Star&#39;s competitor,\nTele-Aid\) to eavesdrop on a suspect, but only after the FBI had listened\nfor 30 days.  It was rejected because using the system this way blocked\nits normal function, so in theory if the system were designed\ndifferently this could be legal.  The article is here:\n<a target="_blank" href="http://www.securityfocus.com/news/7491">http://www.securityfocus.com/news/7491</a>\n\nA security expert I talked to once referred to things like On*Star,\ncordless phones, and wireless microphones as &quot;self-bugging systems&quot;\nbecause they make it easy for anyone who wants to listen in on you --\nyou&#39;ve planted the bug yourself.  I&#39;m not sure people think about the\nprivacy implications enough when they buy into this kind of technology.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=sechead COLSPAN=2>)
27
( )
(responses)
( total.</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(gelinas)
(">)
(gelinas)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
1
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
1
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 20 17:15)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>I certainly do, and those \(un\)fortunate enough to be within range of my\nvoice when an On*Star commercial comes on have been made aware as well.\n\(I&#39;ve even mentioned it in other contexts, when the opportunity arises.\)\n\nIf On*Star can track my car *after* it&#39;s been stolen, it can track it\n*before* it&#39;s been stolen, too.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(glenda)
(">)
(glenda)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
2
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
2
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 20 18:09)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>Gee, Joe, it sounds like your house sounds like our house.  STeve and I gag\nwhen those commercials come on.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(happyboy)
(">)
(happyboy)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
3
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
3
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 20 19:34)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>my wife and i scream at them as well.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(albaugh)
(">)
(albaugh)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
4
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
4
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 20 20:33)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>Only the truly paranoid...\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(remmers)
(">)
(remmers)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
5
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
5
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 20 22:04)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>I choose to be silently indignant.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(twenex)
(">)
(twenex)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
6
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
6
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 20 22:33)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>&quot;What do you give the man who suspects everyone?&quot;\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(drew)
(">)
(drew)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
7
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
7
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 21 01:37)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>Re #4: Better paranoid than destroyed.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(happyboy)
(">)
(happyboy)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
8
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
8
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 21 02:13)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>r4: or those that live in the land of ashkkkroft.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(pvn)
(">)
(pvn)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
9
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
9
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 21 07:23)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>THe question is not if I am paranoid, the question is, am I paranoid\nenough.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(tsty)
(">)
(tsty)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
10
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
10
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 21 09:13)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>becoming a voluntary , seduced, ward of the state has a seductive appeal.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(albaugh)
(">)
(albaugh)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
11
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
11
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 21 17:59)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>Yeah, life these days is just one Orwellian terror...\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(sj2)
(">)
(sj2)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
12
( of )
27
(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
12
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 21 18:11)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>This is no surprise. Your cellphone can be turned into a bugging device \nif the your service provider&#39;s engineer wishes so. The protocol allows \nfor the phone to be turned *on* in order to  eavesdrop on conversations \nwithin the phone&#39;s vicinity.\nLesson: Don&#39;t scream at that support engineer at the call-centre when \nyour SP overbills you ;\) You don&#39;t know whom you might be pissing off.\n\nTechnology has entered daily lives so fast that its possible abuses \nwere totally overlooked.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(other)
(">)
(other)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
13
( of )
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(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
(<A HREF="unseen?resp=)
13
(&conf=agora47&csel=&item=184&isel=185-$&rsel=new)
(" onmouseover="window.status='Mark Unseen'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''">)
(<IMG BORDER=0 HEIGHT=7 WIDTH=23 SRC="https://grex.org/backtalk/image/abalone/)
(unseen.gif" ALT="Mark Unseen"></A>&nbsp;&nbsp;\n)
(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 22 03:49)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>&quot;support engineer&quot;?  Is that supposed to be a joke?\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(sj2)
(">)
(sj2)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
()
(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
(even)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
(>\n  <SPAN CLASS=resphead>)
(response)
( )
14
( of )
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(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
(even)
( ALIGN=RIGHT>)
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(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 22 08:38)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
(</TABLE>\n)
(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>Whats funny about *support engineer*?\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
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(:</SPAN>\n  </TD><TD CLASS=)
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(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 22 16:27)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
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(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>\(it&#39;s funny that a service provider actually has support engineers.\)\n</PRE>\n)
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(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(even)
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(bio?login=)
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(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 22 22:29)
( UTC 2003)
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(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>You&#39;ve probably never talked to a &quot;support engineer&quot; in your life when \ncalling a phone number to obtain home end user help.  The title would \nimply they have an engineering degree.  &quot;Support engineers&quot; travel \nfrom site to site, doing hands-on analysis to determine the cause of \ndifficult problems for other corporations, or more likely, work behind \nthe scenes to help on-site techs who do that.\n\nWhen you talk to a support rep on the phone for any type of consumer \nassistance, you&#39;re probably talking to someone making $8 per hour in \nan entry level job.  If they seem unusually competent, they might be \nmaking $10-12 per hour and are probably in a union.  When they \nsay &quot;let me check that out&quot;, it probably means they&#39;re in their first \nfew weeks on the job and need to ask someone else for an answer.  It \ncould mean they&#39;re looking for an answer in a database.\n\nThe people I call when I have \(not infrequent\) problems with Cingular \nWireless are certainly not engineers.  They&#39;re all right; they care \nabout my problems, and know about basic issues.  Pretty often, if I \nwere to call back and state my problem to someone else, I&#39;d get a \ncompletely different answer, though.\n\nI work in software support.  From time to time, an employer calls me \na &quot;support engineer&quot;, but I&#39;m no engineer or anything resembling one.\n</PRE>\n)
(</TD></TR>\n)
(<TR><TD CLASS=)
(odd)
( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authid><A HREF=")
(bio?login=)
(other)
(">)
(other)
(</A></SPAN><BR>\n  <SPAN CLASS=authfn>)
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(</SPAN></TD>\n  <TD CLASS=)
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( VALIGN=TOP>\n  <TABLE WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD CLASS=)
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(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 22 23:19)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
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(<HR>\n)
(<PRE>My point was that the notion of an actual engineer with the ability \nand authority to turn your cell-phone into a bugging device being in \na position to provide customer support to people pissed off and \ndealing with a call center is patently ridiculous.\n\nBut then, this is far too deep a discussion of what I&#39;m sure was an \noffhand remark anyway.\n</PRE>\n)
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(<SPAN CLASS=respdate>)
(Nov 23 05:58)
( UTC 2003)
(</SPAN></TD></TR>)
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(<HR>\n)

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