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| Author |
Message |
jlamb
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Sexual Harrassment?
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Oct 17 22:09 UTC 2003 |
Recently a new student at my school pressed sexual harassment charges
againts one of my teachers. The teacher in question, tries to act like
a parent like figure. (pats you on the back, rubs your shoulder
maybe). This teacher was a girls softball coach, as was forced to
resign immediately. 2 weeks later, students have found out that he was
forced to resign. One student, the daughter of the President of the
Schoolboard satrted a petition to keep the teacher here. within 2
hours, 157 out of 248 students in my school has signed the petition.
Today is suppose to be his last day of school. One of the problems
with this, is, that he was the advanced math teacher. There will be
no one to replace him for many weeks, and no substitutes can teach it.
This teacher is a valuable asset to the school. he has been teaching
there for the past 27 years, and is the best teacher there (in many
peoples opinions). So, this one girl who just moved here, made a
simple sexual harassment charge, and the teacher is gone? Just the
accusation caused this. another thing is that, they may possibly make
the math teachers wife resign also, which she is a 2rd grade teacher.
So, if i didnt like one of my teachers, i could make an accusation and
probably have them gone, it looks like.
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| 26 responses total. |
tod
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response 1 of 26:
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Oct 17 22:12 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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sabre
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response 2 of 26:
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Oct 17 22:14 UTC 2003 |
Get some of those bad ass black girls to deal with her.
She'll fess up in no time. I'm sure she won't win any popularity contests at
your school anyway.
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jlamb
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response 3 of 26:
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Oct 17 22:22 UTC 2003 |
The accuser is no longer going to our school, she was there for a short
time, then left.
the resignation is not final. no one(public) has officially been told.
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tod
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response 4 of 26:
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Oct 17 22:25 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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jlamb
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response 5 of 26:
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Oct 17 22:35 UTC 2003 |
This accusation went throguh the school system, so nothing is made
public.
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tod
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response 6 of 26:
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Oct 17 22:44 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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janc
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response 7 of 26:
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Oct 18 00:42 UTC 2003 |
Who does this guy think he is? Arnold Schwarzenegger?
Yes, when such a charge is made, the teacher is removed from contact with
students while an investigation is in process. Gotta be done that way.
Got a better suggestion? The petition was a nice thing to do though. But
it can't reasonably be granted until a "full investigation" has been
completed.
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jlamb
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response 8 of 26:
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Oct 18 04:02 UTC 2003 |
There hasn't been any investigation, and i doubt there will be one.
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rcurl
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response 9 of 26:
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Oct 18 05:31 UTC 2003 |
Call the ACLU.
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tod
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response 10 of 26:
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Oct 18 14:38 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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pvn
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response 11 of 26:
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Oct 19 08:00 UTC 2003 |
Its called "Zero Tolerance" and its nice to see it applied to both
students and teachers in a "non-discriminatory" fashion. Its a nice
policy for insurance companies as it allows them to collect smaller
amounts of money from greater numbers of schools to bump up revenue to
pay the revenue based bonus of their upper management types. It allows
school management types to not actually have to do much more than apply
such simple zero tolerance policies to any situation without having to
expend any effort into actually figuring out what is going on. No need
for such outmoded notions such as "common sense" and "judgement".
(Legal disclaimer: I haven't a clue about the actual specifics of the
events noted above. I have no Insurance and have taken great pains to
make sure that I have little or no assets in my name legally so if you
wanna sue me, good luck on getting anything out of it except legal bills
owed to your lawyer.)
This is the bed you liberals made, so enjoy sleeping in it.
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jp2
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response 12 of 26:
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Oct 19 13:29 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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aruba
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response 13 of 26:
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Oct 19 14:27 UTC 2003 |
jlamb - don't let any of the posts here make it seem like this is an easy
problem. It's clear there is real sexual harassment in the world, and also
times when innocent or even friendly behavior is misconstrued (intentionally
or unintentionally) as something more sinister. There ought to be a somber
process for deciding which category a particular event falls into, that
sets aside the many deep emotions that come up when such an accusation is
made.
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slynne
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response 14 of 26:
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Oct 19 17:24 UTC 2003 |
I think that there are often situations where people have different
perceptions about things. It is completely possible that this teacher
was touching the student in a way he sees as being innocent and
helpful. The student however, may have felt genuinely harrassed. I know
that I come from a family that doesnt do a lot of touching. I would
have been very uncomfortable if a teacher hugged me in school. Anyhow,
it isnt desirable to live in a society were people who are simply
accused of something lose their jobs but it also is important to
respect that the accuser's feelings about this may be real and valid.
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jaklumen
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response 15 of 26:
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Oct 19 17:29 UTC 2003 |
resp:11 Zero tolerance gets to be a problem as far as violence, too.
But in general, you can't touch students at all anymore. I tend to
agree it's a little out of hand... anyway, I had a prof who asked
students before making any sort of physicial contact whatsoever.
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rcurl
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response 16 of 26:
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Oct 19 17:36 UTC 2003 |
"May I shake your hand?"
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jaklumen
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response 17 of 26:
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Oct 19 22:03 UTC 2003 |
LOL
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jep
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response 18 of 26:
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Oct 20 02:39 UTC 2003 |
I don't know what the facts are, either, but I think it's a good thing
if:
1) A petition doesn't have much weight.
Unless the petition-signers have actual knowledge of the event, they
shouldn't have any say over how it's handled. A popular teacher would
be able to harrass a new or unpopular student in any way at all if
things were done that way.
2) The teacher's role in the school (ie, advanced math teacher)
doesn't carry much weight.
Nothing justifies harrassment. Even if you're in an important role
for your students.
3) There's some sort of investigation.
Looking at it one way, this girl came into school encountered a bad
situation, tried to do what was needed, and is now ostracized right
out of the school.
Looking at it another way, a good teacher was canned for nothing at
all, other than being accused, possibly by mistake.
With no charges, the guy will never have to face the accusation again.
He'll just go off to another school in a year or so and teach again.
As long as he's innocent, that's fine. If he's not, he can victimize
someone else.
However, there's no way to vindicate yourself from such a situation.
Even if he's found to be really innocent, having his name in the
papers would probably really decrease his chances of working in the
same state. I have no answers for that particular problem. I am not
sure there are any good answers in that case.
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janc
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response 19 of 26:
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Oct 20 03:22 UTC 2003 |
I agree with jep on all counts.
When I was teaching, I knew that I, like any teacher, was potentially
vulnerable to such accusations. It affected my interactions with
students in substantial ways, being careful not only to avoid any kind
of harrassment, but to avoid anything that could be interpreted as
harrassment, or any situation where it would be easy to fabricate a
claim of harrassment (e.g., never close your office door when meeting
with a student). And with all that, you still aren't safe.
Teachers have to take what steps they can to protect themselves, but
I always thought it was worth the price to be sure that the students
were protected. I'd like it if there were a better way.
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gull
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response 20 of 26:
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Oct 21 14:35 UTC 2003 |
I have really mixed feelings about this. I think it's important to
protect people from unwanted sexual advances. On the other hand,
someone I know had to spend lots of money he couldn't really afford
defending himself from a bogus sexual harassment lawsuit. All someone
has to do to ruin your life these days, especially if you're male, is
make the accusation. If you're in a particularly sensitive occupation,
like a teacher, just the public accusation is enough to derail your career.
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slynne
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response 21 of 26:
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Oct 21 16:33 UTC 2003 |
Women are sometimes accused of sexually inappropriate behavior too so
while it is more common for this to happen to men, it isnt like women
never have to worry about it either.
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murph
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response 22 of 26:
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Oct 23 21:18 UTC 2003 |
My mother is a middle-school teacher; both my girlfriend and my brother's are
working on their teaching certificate's, and my mom's number one piece of
advice to them is "never be alone in a room with one student". People need
to be protected from sexual harassment, and accusations need to be taken
seriously, but there comes a point where you can take the accusations *too*
seriously. When people can cry rape whenever they dislike somebody, knowing
that their target's reputation/family life/career will be trashed regardless
of the truth, the false accusations will eventually drown out the real one,
and the *real* harassment will go unaddressed.
Teachers (and other public figures) need to heed the advice of "always have
a witness", but accusations need to be investigated to every extent possible,
and false accusations vigorously undone--every teacher falsely accused of
harassment needs to be returned to hir classroom--when possible, so keep the
signal from being lost in the noise.
*Not* punishing the falsely accused is as important to the interests of
victims as punishing the guilty.
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janc
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response 23 of 26:
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Oct 26 18:46 UTC 2003 |
I don't think totally false accusations of harassment are made very
often. I think it's much less common than real harassment going
unreported. Coming forward with such an accusation, true or false,
isn't really all that easy.
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remmers
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response 24 of 26:
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Oct 26 19:31 UTC 2003 |
Could be, but it's still the case that due process should precede
judgement.
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