Jeffrey Spoon / Spoon Properties - anyone know anything?

Jul 9 02:30 UTC 2004

Does anyone know anything about Jeffrey Spoon or Spoon Properties?
Supposedly, he/they are buying the apartment complex that i live
in and turning part of it into condo's.  The old landlord kept the
place really well maintained, and rent increases were (for the
area) pretty modest.  It sounds like my choices will soon be (1)
buy a condo from Mr. Spoon, (2) rent an apartment from Mr. Spoon,
and (3) find a new place to live.  Sky-high prices & rising interest
rates make buying look pretty dubious right now, but renting risks
both having a crappy landlord and being booted out again when the
CondoBorg hits the new apartment.

(It's Arbor Village Apartments, next to St. Francis Catholic Church
on E. Stadium near Washtenaw.)

response 2 of 31:

Jul 9 13:40 UTC 2004

There are 2 apartment complexes right next to Trader Joe's - Arbor Village
(mine) on the west, and Ann Arbor Woods (less desirable to my eye, but it
seems to attract the police occasionally) to the east.  (Then there's the
LampPost Inn (?) that's actually on Stadium, in front of Ann Arbor Woods -
it seems to be a motel that advertises weekly & monthly rates...)

My impression is that Ann Arbor housing prices have been rising far faster
than personal incomes for quite a while...at some point, the bubble's got
to pop when too few people can afford the sky-high price tags...and rising
mortgage rates mean yet-higher monthly payments...

response 4 of 31:

Jul 13 01:35 UTC 2004

Well, i've talked to quite a few folks, and still nothing very useful
about Mr. Spoon.  It sounds like he's fairly new to Ann Arbor, talks
big, and has some high-end projects downtown that aren't working out
so well.  Zilch about how he treats his tenants/customers. 

One condo-savvy & condo-owning building trades guy advised me to move 
out regardless - the new condo's are a big unknown, and the not-yet-
condofied apartments will get 2nd-class treatment one way or another;
meanwhile, there are plenty of other established-known-quantity condo
complexes out there and similar apartments complexes where renting is
their #1 business.  I don't know...this place is a LONG was above the
last apartments-only complex i was in... 

response 6 of 31:

Jul 13 15:42 UTC 2004

Not really.  I don't have any interest in the maintenance that a house 
needs, prices for houses strike me as being foolishly high, and i just
don't have the emotional want for my own house.

(Not that i've got the $$$$$$ that Ann Arbor houses cost anyway.) 

I have peeked a bit at The Village (the big co-op of duplexes south of
Arborland between Washtenaw & Packard) on the web & asked them for
some info.  Parts of Walden Hills (on Pauline 'tween W. Stadium & S.
Maple) also look half-way reasonable.  Of course, a big part of really
buying is doing all the math to figure out what my current rent budget 
equates to after mortgage costs, interest rate deductions, paying for 
heat, association fees, etc., etc.

response 8 of 31:

Jul 16 03:39 UTC 2004

Hmmm... I lived in that area for a while; the only pool I remember is
Forestbrooke.  'Twas nice, but I don't know what the membership fees are.

response 10 of 31:

Jul 16 22:38 UTC 2004

Digging through the listings at www.Realtor.com, it looks like i may
also want to consider the bottom end units at Geddes Lake Coop.  For
$30K more than typical The Village 2BR units, i'd get 200 more sq. ft.,
an extra 1/2 bath, *attached garage*, lower association fee, no goofy
9.875% blanket mortgage, 30 years newer construction...on the other
hand, it's a sprawling flat-roofed doorwall showroom (likely huge
heating/cooling costs) and convenient to nothing except Gallop Park
& the high school.  Other than the lower monthly costs, i don't need
any of that (though garage is nice in cold or bad weather.  "Cheapest
in Geddes Lake" may be discounted for condition as well as size.

One 2BR unit on Fernwood in the Village is selling for ~$10K below
the rest - agent says it needs paint, floor refinishing, and new
countertops, but is in a more-desirable location.  I know at least
a couple builder guys who give referrals, and painting isn't too
hard...

response 12 of 31:

Jul 19 17:02 UTC 2004

I dont recall the construction at The Village as being particularly bad 
although the unit my friend was renting had some issues that her 
landlord wouldnt fix. A leaking toilet had damaged the subfloor in her 
bathroom for instance. But, to be honest, I am kind of dippy about such 
things. 

My friend who was renting at The Village didnt have major problems with 
critters. I dont know how well it was insulated but it was much better 
insulated than my house although that doesnt say much as my house 
pretty much isnt insulated at all and is rather drafty. As for noise. I 
think my friend *was* the noise problem and she doesnt live there 
anymore ;) Seriously though, Geddes Lake is much more quiet than The 
Village which seems to have more younger people and people with kids. I 
dont mind that kind of noise but some folks do. 


I like Geddes Lake better than The Village and if I were making the 
choice, I would go with Geddes Lake. I think the garage and the general 
lay out of the units would do it for me. That 200 square feet extra 
makes a difference. Well, I dont know how many different floor plans 
Geddes Lake has but the one I have seen where some friends lived was 
pretty nice. It had a nice pond view and had a cozy but not to cramped 
feel. 

response 14 of 31:

Jul 24 12:13 UTC 2004

I just got the new Ann Arbor Observer & looked at its June 2004 Home
Sales page.  They noted a divergence in condo prices - rising for the
newer & feature-rich stuff, weak for older units.  Median price up by
5% from Jun03, but the dragged-up-by-big-numbers-at-the-high-end mean
price is up 10% from Jun03.  Particular complexes:  Chapel Hill held
steady, Oak Meadows dropped 17% ("comparable floor plans"), Walden
Hills fell 11%, and Weatherstone slipped 4%.  OTOH, The Village was up
7% & Geddes Lake up 3%.

The FSBO guy at The Village had noted to me that the number of units
up for sale there had surged following a fairly recent price rise, as
a number of people tried to cash out at recent higher prices...will 
that push prices right back down? 

Now, what?  I'm tempted to get preliminary "what we'd loan you" numbers
from a mortgage place, eyeball a unit or 3 in several complexes to
identify places i'd like, then start graphing prices over time, like
stock geeks supposedly do (trying to pin down the "right time" to buy
or sell).  

Meanwhile, my friend with a ~1400 sq. ft. mobile home in that nice park
out on Jackson in Scio Twp. is now hoping she can clear $20K on it...
hard to beat that price, but i've no idea what monthly costs are. 
And the vacancy rate for apartments here at Arbor Village is still far
from zero - can i dicker it down a bit? 

(The mean price for houses was only up 4%, hinting weakness in the top
end of the market.  Hopefully this'll curb the "miles of McMansions"
sprawl a bit.)

response 16 of 31:

Jul 24 12:42 UTC 2004

Er, postponed.

response 18 of 31:

Jul 25 12:12 UTC 2004

I pulled out the info that the listing Realtor's junior "Buyer's Agent"
guy mailed me when i called them about the Independence Condo (see #13,
2nd paragraph above) yesterday.  (FWIW, Mr. Eager-to-be-my-agent mailed
pitifully little info, 99% of it duplicating what he knew i'd already
seen on www.Realtor.com.)  The complex is considerably nicer than my 
(dim memory & driving by) impression.  A very friendly older resident
i ran into was happy to talk about things, and (allowing for some bias)
spoke favorably of both the complex & vacant unit's current owner.  It
sounds like she had several cats...i'm allergic...but the carpeting is
"new" - was it cleaned & recarpeted *after* the cats left?  He did note
that the association fee has gone up considerably to fund new balconies
& other substantial maintenance projects in the past few years...well,
far better to know & have some of it fixed already.  Hot (& cold) water
are also included in the association fee, the balcony overlooks an nice
landscaped part of the complex's central courtyard, and the windows at
the top of the cathedral ceiling do not open (though some other folks
have paid to get that changed).  Sounds like Ann Arbor Realty (?) is
the management company...yet another entity to investigate...

Anybody know the sales commission rules for A^2 Area Realtors?  I'm
wondering whether Mr. Underwhelming Realtor would collect double if
i didn't have a Realtor of my own (to collect her own %), or if the $
would be left in the seller's hands (letting 'em drop the price?).  I
probably should decide strategy on that before trying to get a look at
Realtor-listed units in any of the complexes i'm considering.  

(I could also check how long the Independence unit's been on the market
& mail the owner a letter if it looked like her contract with her
Realtor might be up...but i'm a ways from being that serious about the
unit.) 

response 20 of 31:

Jul 25 20:16 UTC 2004

Hmmm.  With 15% going to the Realtor(s), it sounds like i need to start
looking at FSBO's.  That $123K unit at Independence would be $104.5K
net to the owner...and peeking through the Real Estate Closings page in 
back issues of the A^2 Observer seems to reveal that units there have 
actually sold for $70.0K to $116.5K in the past 3 years, and one with 
the same street address as the listed unit sold for $103K last year...
best guess is that it's right under the one for sale.  The $70K+ sales
are in '01 & the $88.5K in Jan02, so the '04/'05 Observer City Guide's
"$90K to $115K, 1 to 3 bedrooms" is starting to look real, and the $123K
price tag on the listed unit looks ambitious.  Makes me wonder if the
local standard is to list stuff at "hope & prayer" prices, then settle
for 10%-20% less if no eager spendthrift happens by.  The "either ~$104K
or ~$115K" price split at Independence since May02 could be explained as
"either FSBO or (commissioned) agent", too. 

response 22 of 31:

Jul 26 02:38 UTC 2004

Hmmm...it sounds like i'll need to redo my approach to this...if the
asking price is within ~25% of plausable, then review the actual sales
price history to decide whether the place merits a closer look...but
if, as the above data point suggests, the A^2 Observer City Guide is
an accurate source of real prices, then the new algorithm could still
be pretty quick.

Then there's the local reality for each property i figure's worth a
closer look.  Mr. Wanna-Be-My-Buyer's-Agent spilled that the unit at
Independence needs ~~$6K of work on its kitchen when i caught him a
bit off guard with a candid question, then forgot it fast (not in his
hand-written summary that re-repeats several small favorable details).
Sounds like, "Buyer's Agent" or not, i'd better be ready to do quite
a bit of my own detective work, and hire experts as needed.

Renting is looking better and better...

response 24 of 31:

Jul 26 17:30 UTC 2004

Peeking at www.Realtor.com this morning, another 2BR/1Bth 2nd story condo
at Independence has hit the market - at $133.9K ($10K more than the other
one).  Has a unit sold high recently that they think they can get it, or
is this a fantasy price?  They didn't bother posting a little blurb (to
mention features which might support the price), nor did they post any
interior photos.

The point on the wanna-be Buyer's Agent was that he seems to be showing
active hostility to my interests (paying a low price, not through the
nose) while he's trying to convince me to take him on as a trusted and
well-paid agent.  The whole real-estate-related industry has pretty clear
interests running directly against the interests of (potential) buyers -
this does not inspire confidence.

If the $123.9K unit was listed at $104K (plausable price to judge by the
Observer's history) - $6K (fix the kitchen) = $98K, then i might feel
some real interest.  As it is, i find myself looking harder at all the
900-1000 sq. ft. units over at Walden Hills listed at $102.5K - $117.5K
and wondering what they really close for, wanting to really see a 2BR
unit at The Village, ask my friend more about her $20K mobile home out
at Scio Farm Estates (?) on Jackson Rd., etc.